is 5hp enough?

kento911 · Kickflip Joined: 29 Mar 2004 Posts: 3657 City: Phoenix

EvanPark, ahhh the student has become the teacher Laughing

, my balls are not tied up lol, I just wanna make sure people dont get the wrong idea and piss away inordinant amounts of money (like I have on several under-powered protos previous to my current one) building something thats gonna crap out, you know better than anyone how "rich*" Im gonna get off of selling mine Rolling Eyes

(*sarcastic undertone)

Goad · Faceplant Joined: 31 Mar 2005 Posts: 2 City: True

Kento, relax. I'm going to clear a few things up, and then let this thread die down.

1. I do not doubt the pro rider had the skill to get up. I'd hope they would. I'm just saying that dispite what you believe, riders have gotten pulled in deep water with a 5 HP winch. That's it.

2. My boat example was that it was a new rider learning to wakeskate. The boat was in perfect condition, but no amount of horse power is going to make you instantly get up if you don't know how. It's really not that complex.

3. The winch in Sfumato is one of (if not) the first prototype ReWind winch.

4. There's more to a winch than HP, and that is why you can pull deepwater starts with a 5 HP engine. As far as what "The Winch" has said, I'll leave it alone as it may have been a post from last year. I'll leave that one alone.

5. Good luck on your own endeavors....

kento911 · Kickflip Joined: 29 Mar 2004 Posts: 3657 City: Phoenix

dude Im relaxed why do people assume if you disagree with them that your up in arms. . .sure midgets and children can deep water on 5hp, and beginners behind boats are directly comaprable to pros behind winches, its not what I belive buddie its what I have experienced. . . despite what you belive, and I would let the Rewind thing die too, b/c it tottally disproves your statement with your source lol, but hey well let it die if you like, I just think your encouraging people to do it the wrong way just my opinion, based on personal experience

thewinch · Ollie Joined: 24 Jan 2004 Posts: 64

TRUTH : The Rewind winch in Sfumato was the second prototype built in late 2002 it has 3.5 HP and towed about 20mph we could make it go faster if we changed the spocket size. It wouldn't do deepwater starts, but it could if we changed the spocket.
As far as HP goes, it dosen't matter its all about the spocket and reel size. Say you wanna go 22-25mph but you only are rockin a 5hp, big spocket will give you ample torque to deepwater and shrink the reel size to give you more speed instead of our usual 6inch move down to a 3 inch or less but build up the side walls to allow for the same amount of rope.
We have got guys out there riding 5hp rewinds and they pull lik20-22mph

kento911 · Kickflip Joined: 29 Mar 2004 Posts: 3657 City: Phoenix

thewinch wrote:
we do not use lawnmower engines as you might think the torque on a 5hp lawnmower engine is not enough even at 100% to pull even a little kid out of the water. And the most important part of all, the reel size and the reel itself it is so critical to the performance of the winch

ok thewinch, ???? now Im really confused?? something aint stirring the Kool aid, especially since I remember you saying you popped a motor on a big dock start Grubb did, so you were going to a bigger motor, so if you didnt need to then why??. . my experience has taught me hp and torque are important, as well as drive system and spool, and rope.

thewinch · Ollie Joined: 24 Jan 2004 Posts: 64

Your experience? What experience? All your doing is copying me! When you want help or advice on finishing your winch,holla at me.
A lawnmower engine is usually a verticle drive motor that does not turn the right way, I built one of these ,but it does pulls funny the rope hits the top of the sidewall of the reel, since the reel is horizontal.
And yes we did blow a 8hp motor with Grubb, but thats because we later found out that when we modified the motor we left a bolt out of the engine case and that caused a little thing called no oil pressure and we burned up the journal and then blew the connecting rod right through the block. It was worth it though it was good media! I think it Attention Deficit still has it.
Its ALL about RPM and sprocket size, and a little technique of the rider.

Thats why my new winch is going to be quite unique, size vs. rpm

2L82SK8 · Faceplant Joined: 08 Sep 2004 Posts: 14

And the irony to this whole discussion is:

Typically you don't do (or need to do) deep water starts with a winch.

-The water is usually shallow (ponds ditches, fountains etc.)
-The rider frequently walks to the starting point (thus on land and can "dock"start)
-Swimming to do a deep water start will exhaust the rider so much they will only do a couple pulls

warlock · Backside 180 Joined: 20 Jan 2005 Posts: 1503 City: AC

how would and old honda cr 50 engine work?

erikn · Posted: Mar 31, 2005 11:31 am Post subject:

thewinch, nice to talk to someone who knows what they are talking about!

I think my engine (5.3 hp) give maximum torque at 4500 RPM. With right gearing it will work.... Stay tuned cause thats all for now. Give me 4-5 Weeks and will give you the winch.... swedish style! Cool

kento911 · Kickflip Joined: 29 Mar 2004 Posts: 3657 City: Phoenix

thewinch, copy you thats funny, I find it interesting, that you seem to think, b/c you were the first person to bring the product to market (and I use the term Bring to market loosely, b/c in my mind Hypoxic should really wear that crown) you now have a monopoly on the mental property as well, you dont know what my experience entails, I was out in left field before you even spoke to me, I got winch designs on my drafting table, I am giving away to kids via PM, b/c this aint my gravy train hoss this is my love I wanna see this sport go forward not be sunk in a myriad of medocre products released in pursuit of the all mighty dollar. . . and Ill laugh when they roll up and clown yours. . . . so I will most certainly not "holla at you" b/c I dont want to be associated with someone who is decietful with his customers, you know what BIIIGGGG PROPS to Hypoxic and Neveride, at least they can keep from BSing, and threatening thier customers, oh and uh you still havent answered the full question

kento911 · Kickflip Joined: 29 Mar 2004 Posts: 3657 City: Phoenix

2L82SK8, sorta true, but I got some spots that need that feature, thats why i made it a point to have ample power to do it

warlock, no, but a copy of one at 110cc with the unicyle shift would work better than a briggs and stratton

warlock · Backside 180 Joined: 20 Jan 2005 Posts: 1503 City: AC

so you extend the drive shaft and bypass the 6spd tranny... you go w/ a single shift gear.... and you need atleast a 125cc from that 2 stroke family?? interesting... do you think the powerband is going to cause problems?? and a larger 4 stroke would preform more efficiently?

erikn · Posted: Mar 31, 2005 1:54 pm Post subject:

kento911, I just noticed something about your winch. A motorcycle engine needs the airflow from driving forwards for cooling the engine... so probably your engine will overheat, since its not moving.... Or do you got a solution for that?

thewinch · Ollie Joined: 24 Jan 2004 Posts: 64

Hey we all got love for this sport, dude, don't hate the player hate the game.
As far as not using a Briggs motor, why would you use anything else?
The price and complexity is far less and parts are extremely cheap and easy to find, more importantly IT WORKS. K.I.S.S, Keep It Simple Stupid.
Hypoxia bringing it? please all they did was copy my design.

Kento, how can you help anyone else you haven't even built yours.
I can't wait for that power band to rip someones arms right out of the socket. And I was waiting for someone to address the colling problem of his winch,and yes you need airflow. So now you have to shroud it and cool it , one more thing to break. Remember KISS.
Back to the drawing board!

Morphine · Backside 180 Joined: 03 Jun 2004 Posts: 1207 City: 706omg

thewinch, even if you did "bring it to the sport" (I doubt this, which is why it's in quotes) it's no reason to be a dick to everybody else trying to make a winch, k? The company that made the first compression molded skate doesn't get pissed at everybody else cause they compression mold and say they "copied" him. Know what I mean? So just chill out and respect what people are trying to do. Constructive criticism is ok, but "One more thing to break, back to the drawing board!" is just you coming across as an jerk.

2L82SK8 · Faceplant Joined: 08 Sep 2004 Posts: 14

kento911 · Kickflip Joined: 29 Mar 2004 Posts: 3657 City: Phoenix

warlock, I feel a 4 stroke will provide a more efficient holeshot for a solid non slippy pull up, and I feel that the tranny shouldnt be by passed, it only takes a quasi experienced motorcycle rider, to adjust to a shift

erikn, I noticed that before I bought it, and I also noticed that all winches have such a low duty cycle, plus the fact that a 13 to 16 hp motor will be far from operating under max load after it planes the rider out(that would be the advantage of more horsepower and torque), so it wont be generating much heat, question is with the amount of load you'll be generating with a high rpm 5.4 hp motor (high rpms equal more heat) how do you plan to cool, i bet the same O2 Im using, but with the slight aroma of sweden in it Wink

thewinch, yeah I see how you show your love for the sport Rolling Eyes

sign me up for that fake patent decietful sales tactic contradictory bs threatenting lawsuit condescending tone love whooo hoo I can feel it Rolling Eyes

you wanna show this community your love, read Morphines post and start there. oh and until you've set foot in my garage you don tknow what I have you think I broadcast everything on here please, oh and I dont have a drwing board i have a drafting table but thanks I think ill stick to doing what you dont

and with regard to KISS, my design is very simple, but yo ugot to learn the difference between complicated and advanced, plus I got an engineer with 30 years of design and RD experience fopr a fortune 100 company to run my ideas by I feel just fine about my ideas

BTW I always preferred Keep It Super Simple. . . .but then again I dont usually resort to calling people stupid

parky · Kickflip Joined: 04 Oct 2004 Posts: 3193

WOOT WOOT GO KENT GO KENT WOOT WOOT Laughing

kento911 · Kickflip Joined: 29 Mar 2004 Posts: 3657 City: Phoenix

EvanPark, now that Ive heard your voice, I can imagine you saying that, and it cracks me the frik up. Laughing

warlock · Backside 180 Joined: 20 Jan 2005 Posts: 1503 City: AC

i only ask cause i have had many... but i have an xr200r stripped the engine would be perfect...i guess

we should chat pm