This matters

SEAMAN · Frontside 180 Joined: 14 Sep 2003 Posts: 388 City: Atlanta

I saw this post from Electricsnow just now. There is a lot of hearsay and silly accusations but I think there is something huge to all of this.

http://www.wakeskating.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=32272

Ok, so here are my thoughts on this. Its pretty simple, look where she put this article...in other boardsports. Was that on purpose? This will affect the wakeBOARD industry a lot. Fortunately, this can only set wakeskating apart from wakeboarding.

No matter how much the archer brands try to control everything, building a wakeskate on our own is way easier and more doable than a wakeboard. Wakeskating involves a sense of freedom, creativity, and individuality that wakeboarding will always be envious of. This is why one BIG company will never control wakeskating. What a great time to really create our own industry, whether it be small or big.

Support Integrity, support Remote, support More Than Machines, support your buddy who has the brains and resources to build some awesome products for his friends and hopefully more. Support the companies and people that you believe are representing and pushing wakeskating the way you want.

Having said that, we shouldn't hate on others for supporting who they feel are taking wakeskating the way they want it to go. Even if thats a paycheck to feed their family or buy a new car. Its up to every individual to have the foresight to see where these companies are taking us in the future. If I want Erich to keep making boards for a long time, then I should buy a board from him this year. If we want more videos like More than Machines, then I'm gonna skip some fast food runs and contribute more to Tad.

Does this make me a total hypocrite, yeah of course. But its easy to justify support from Bob when you are trying to feed your family. I don't have any ties to the industry now so my hard-earned dollar is going to companies that I see wanting to support wakeskating the way I want it to be supported. And if there aren't any companies I want to support, I'm gonna make some of my own.

I truly believe this is a bad time for wakeboarding, but a great opportunity to wakeskaters to take control of wakeskating. Its almost like we are going back to 2001. To me thats a refreshing thought!

miller · Backside 180 Joined: 08 Aug 2004 Posts: 2394 City: Regina

SEAMAN, totally agree.

Wakeskaters Unite

likwidfolife · Pop Shuvit Joined: 30 Apr 2009 Posts: 228 City: DFW

I dont wakeboard, but now that i read that article I'm defintely going to inform every wakeboarder I see to not support Liquid Force. Sounds like a greedy blood sucking company, I hold a fist in the air to corporate america and in the words of Cee-Lo "EFFFFF YOU WHOO WHOO" haha

electricsnow · cassette Joined: 14 Sep 2003 Posts: 10752 City: Jefferton

I did put it in there on purpose becuase right now all of that stuff is surrounded around wakeboarding. I will post something later today to make it more relevant to wakeskating because it's pretty interesting, and makes me proud of certain people and also makes me appreciate the inventors. (keep doing what you're doing derek!)

I understand people have families to feed or business decisions to make and I don't want to put people in an ethical squeeze when I know that I feel differently than they do. I had a really great conversation with someone else a few days ago and I think the bottom line for most of us is no matter who's pushing wakeskating or making our wakeskates, we're always going to ride, and we're going to ride what we want to ride. That's just it. be it wakeskating, skateboarding or whatever is our thing, we're just going to do it no matter what.

EJazzle · Posted: Mar 20, 2011 3:48 pm Post subject:

its been like this for as long as I can remember. Why is it all of the sudden "breaking news

Jama · Pop Shuvit Joined: 01 Oct 2008 Posts: 167

EJazzle, maybe not all of us knew about it man. It's nice to be in "the know".

This stinks. Tony Finn used to be my hero.

electricsnow · cassette Joined: 14 Sep 2003 Posts: 10752 City: Jefferton

EJazzle, because of the patent lawsuit.

Lollar · 360 flip Joined: 19 Jun 2007 Posts: 8253

Pretty lame but Im quite sure a number of different industries operate like this.

-=AlexXx=- · Posted: Mar 20, 2011 7:50 pm Post subject:

im with EJ on this one.

shizzle stiiiiiinnnnkkkkkssssss

http://vimeo.com/18927345

WERDna · Backside 180 Joined: 07 Jan 2009 Posts: 541

scott a · "a" is for angel Joined: 17 Feb 2004 Posts: 4126

WERDna · Backside 180 Joined: 07 Jan 2009 Posts: 541

i realize this but from my point of view we're in mere limbo.

POPTART · 360 flip Joined: 24 Jul 2007 Posts: 7621

what dose everyone think about wakeskating having 0$

i mean we really cant control anything without having the backing
so shouldn't we all just press our own decks or buy them from the independent board company's , even if its been like this for years, we are pretty much along for the ride as we are

and maybe someday we wont have to buy their lines, vest and suits b/c we will have our own companys that actually care about our sport for us to support

Neutral

we are the change we need

i feel like wesubsist, blast, remote, oak, integ/mutiny, slashtank, lasewer are all our family (there are tons more we could add to this list) and we need to get behind them

i like the idea that we could be an independent sport , non reliant on wakeboarding for media, contest, industry backing, and to draw new kids into our sport
but it all comes down to money Crying or Very sad

if i win the lottery guys , wakeskating can have it all Birthday

price.dan · Backside 180 Joined: 10 May 2006 Posts: 1404 City: Regina

with all the relatively newer cheaper alternatives to wakeskate more of the general public have greater opportunity to wakeskate. Whereas, to wakeboard you need a expensive boat, alot more gas, and more expensive board set ups. Wakeboarding is an expensive sport compared to wakeskating.

I personally don't think/hope the wakeskate industry will become anything like the wakeboard industry. The patent lawsuits that are currently in the wakeboard industry only exist because of new technological innovations developed by one company. Other campanies see this new innovation and incorporate it into their designs. One may argue this is comparative advantage... economically you must do what your competitors are doing otherwise you will be left at a disadvantage. I don't see this transferring to the wakeskate industry b/c board design can't really evolve anymore than currently is, they can only make minor improvements. Compared to the wakeboard industry the wakeskate industry predominantly has smaller private companies producing boards. Although large wakeboard companies do make wakeskates, thankfully they're focus is on the wakeboard industry. Besides they're current wakeskates are heavily wakeboard orientated.

Support wakeskate only companies!

tyn · Pop Shuvit Joined: 12 Oct 2008 Posts: 135 City: Orlando

Damn! I thought crab mentality happens only here on the flipside. *sigh*

WERDna · Backside 180 Joined: 07 Jan 2009 Posts: 541

RUSSIAN · Posted: Mar 21, 2011 2:14 pm Post subject:

Wakeskating will never be like wakeboarding from an industry point of view. Wakeskating looks dumb to 99% of the people. The people that go out and buy the expensive boats, $1000's in new gear every year are mainly only concerned with one thing, looking cool, and partying is a close second(these are interchangeable depending on location). If you don't believe me then make a trip out west and I'll take you skating on the infamous delta waters. How many times have you been asked if you can do a flip on that mini-wakeboard?

The wakeskate industry needs wakeboarding, more then most realize. The liquid Playground is a perfect example of this. Austin NEEDS to sell wakeboard gear, yet he spends most of his time/energy/money on wakskating. A visit to his shop only confirms it. A beautiful wakeskate gallery! But he still has to stock evil wakeboard stuff. Laughing

The same old tired argument that we don't need big expensive boats to waterdance is well, old and tired. Yes we can ride without a big expensive boat, but what about the other stuff. If the big companies fail we will have nothing, no vendors, shops etc. We NEED ropes and vests. As it stands we have one option to buy them, the wakeboard industry. I wear O'Neil shorts, wetsuits etc and dvs shoes, but when it comes time for a new rope guess what?

For the wakeskate industry to detach and do it's own thing, major changes will have to come from within. I don't see either happening, and many of my friends are making a living(or trying) from the industry and that industry is has to have wakeboarding involved at this point

electricsnow · cassette Joined: 14 Sep 2003 Posts: 10752 City: Jefferton

there's a lot to respond to, and lots of people have said great things. WerdNA's post (or one of them) made me think about things a bit. What a lot of wakeskaters have always wanted is for wakeskating to be recognized as its own thing, and "not just an off shoot of wakeboarding." This in mind, it would be nice to see more wakeskaters be in charge of companies, or just trying to do a good job of leading and trying to innovate. This doesn't mean that wakeboard companies will never make wakeskates. It's like snow ski companies making snowboards, or waterski companies making wakeboards. It's that same kind of evolution and connection

And the thing is, for me anyway, wakeboarding itself isn't bad. I don't even wakeboard anymore but I'd love to see people like justin or whoever succeed if they've got new ideas and want to make a change. I don't want to see them get pushed out because there's not enough money for everybody or whatever.

Also, there are patents in wakeskating. liquid force has their sponge technology that is really bodyboarding technology. More worthy of note is that Jason Messer has a patent and eventually licenced his technology to HO and every other big wakeboard company. None of the small wakeskate companies had to deal with that. Wakeskaters can invent worthy technology and patent it--it's not a bad thing. Part of a patent is how you're going to use it. It seems like for the most part, in snowboarding it's a way to make money. You have this technology and you license it. I can't recall any instances in snowboarding in which a patent was used to tie someone up in court just to drain their resources. (this is not to say it hasn't happened. I just don't know if this occuring.)

andrewt · Posted: Mar 22, 2011 9:51 am Post subject:

dont know much about this but just read this on fb posted by marc thompson on Blast page.
..Marco Thompson
KCW Story Picked up on Alliance - Wakeboard Inventor & Founder of Liquid Force TONY FINN Joins Investor Team at KC Watersports

Kansas City Watersports sold to investment group that includes Tony Finn, Marco Thompson March 21st, 2011, Kansas City, Kansas - Cable park pioneer

waterdork88 · Frontside 180 Joined: 12 Dec 2004 Posts: 426 City: Orlando

I'm going to buy the best product at the best price. I could care less what company made it.

If you feel inclined that LF is an evil corporation because you believe the patent thing was just a horrible thing to do. Then I can understand where you're coming from. I just think its weird when we start saying things like (not word for word, just the idea expressed by many different people) "LF is evil because they just want money". Every organization you buy from is doing it for the money. If they weren't, they would give you the products away for free and wouldn't sell it.

A monopoly... I don't think it'll happen, but if it does just remember that monopolies never last long when theres a free market. The more a monopoly charges for a particular good, the more someone else could sell the same thing for cheaper. The less options there are, the more opportunities someone else can offer new options giving them a competitive advantage. Thats business.

I'm not sticking up for LF, because they very well could be evil for all I know. But wanting money doesn't justify that thought and a monopoly isn't anything to be scared of.