uber alles

SCBrips · Posted: May 14, 2004 4:42 pm Post subject:

Schmaltz would never align himself with something pro-nazi.

"über alles" has nothing to do with nazis or hitler. "Deutschland über alles" had been around long before nazi Germany.

So, I'm having trouble understanding why people in Europe may have a problem with it. Don't get me wrong; I'm ignorant of the subject and I'm not trying to criticize something I don't understand. I'd just like to know where you're coming from, Paul.

heywood · Pop Shuvit Joined: 14 Sep 2003 Posts: 144 City: hollywood

if i remember correctly, didn't whats his name totally sell out the dead kennedys?
not sure how that fits with the whole mutiny thing, in fact i dont think it really does or was meant to, but just a funny thought

the bygone · Faceplant Joined: 22 Mar 2004 Posts: 26

who is whats his name?

heywood · Pop Shuvit Joined: 14 Sep 2003 Posts: 144 City: hollywood

from the band

electricsnow · cassette Joined: 14 Sep 2003 Posts: 10756 City: Jefferton

Here's a good site to check out: http://www.brandenburghistorica.com/page5.html

It'll tell you about the anthem and how deutchland uber alles came about. It will also talk about the sensitivity that became attached to those words (ironically by allied propagandists). But I'm not totally sure that they were the only ones.

(Rubs chin) interesting...

SCBrips · Posted: May 14, 2004 8:22 pm Post subject:

I just got off the phone with Schmaltz and he's pretty bummed about this sh*t. It's pretty disheartening to see knee jerk reactions overcome logical thinking.

After thinking about this situation for a while, I'm pretty upset that certain people felt the need to stir up controversy with Schmaltz and Integrity (Scratches head in angered confusion). Especially when everyone is aware of the unfortunate circumstances that afflicted Schmaltz at Mutiny. Why stir up controversy when that's the last thing that is needed?

Implying that the phrase über alles is somehow evil is like saying that a baseball bat is evil. They themselves cannot be good nor bad, only their use can.

Integrity über alles simply means to maintain your integrity above all else. I'd say this phrase is positive and uplifting; wouldn't you?

RUSSIAN · Posted: May 14, 2004 9:48 pm Post subject:

I think some are reading to far into this. It's amazing how a thread can change so fast. It's interesting to see how one person can twist something ever so slightly and have it manifest into something so ignorant. I don't think anyone on this site realizises how loud their voices really are. Erich is upset about this, I know he does not want to see his company associated with anything and I mean ANYTHING negative.
Integrity uber alles is just that, so don't get it twisted

K-dub · Pop Shuvit Joined: 28 Oct 2003 Posts: 121 City: nor-cal

I too was on the phone with Erich tonight, and I can say that he is very disheartened about this whole situation as he is on the road right now, and has no way of defending himself and his beliefs..

with that being said...

Erich is a very eclectic and educated person. If you know anything about what Erich has done in the past or present you would know that he uses different languages in his projects on a regualr basis. Take a look at his new website that he has been building www.integrity-wake.com ... On that site he uses Latin, he alson has used German, Russian, and other languages in the past. Why?? Because he does'nt like the obvious. People need to think for something to mean anything to them...take this thread for example. Look where it started, and look where it is now....

I cant really fathom how some of the thoughts and ideas that have been expressed in this thread so far have been brought into light. In no way has Nazi germany even been a thought in the Integrity game plan. In this case, I guess it would be easy to make the word "love" into "hate" in no time flat....Integrity is about more than wakeskating, it's about a movement. A movement of expression, and self respect....

INTEGRITY UBER ALLES!!!

electricsnow · cassette Joined: 14 Sep 2003 Posts: 10756 City: Jefferton

Well, I'm not sure if I'm one of these people in question (even though I never made any references to schmaltz or integrity), but I'll explain all of my posts to clear up any possible misunderstandings.

1)california uber alles: I referenced this song because it had said words. I explained why the song had the lyrics that it did, and obviously "california uber alles" is a historical reference to the national anthem of germany. I also brought up the german references throughout the song to (hopefully) support the fact that uber alles was in fact german and not latin.

2) Again, another post referring to the lyrical content of the dead kennedy's song.

4) (reply to jerrysk8) I basically clarified that post. And it was not hitler that adopted the german national anthem, but rather, president ebert of the weimar republic. And as I also mentioned, it was the allied propagandists (read:"Our" side) that twisted the meaning of "uber alles."

I'll be honest, jerrysk8's concerns weren't totally unwarranted because like the allies, there were also german propagandists that twisted meanings and things of that nature. Here's an example I found from a different site earlier today: http://www.locksley.com/6696/swastick.htm

"The German word "völkisch" is essentially untranslatable to English, as defined by the Nazis. It means a "German-ness," a patriotism that transends national boundaries and time, to include everything that is truly "Germanic," a "cult of the race," if you will.

"In reality, 'völkisch' would simply mean 'of the people', as it is derived from 'Volk' which means 'People' as in 'the American people'. It was only after a careful redefining proces from Joseph Goebbels and his propaganda-department that it began to mean 'of the GERMAN people'. And as (during the war) 'German' was to be understood as a 'quality' of race and blood, and no longer as a geographical or social thing, 'völkisch' got it's propaganda meaning.

The idea that the word 'völkisch' automatically means "being German" is the result of intricate propaganda-methods. Up to this day this propaganda-derived component is somehow attached to the word, but that's not because of the actual literal meaning of the word."

However, as SCBrips pointed out, you can't let emotions and assumptions take over your common sense and ability to think, which is why it's important to educate one's self about these kinds of things (hence, the other links I found and added on here because I thought they provided some useful information).

Hopefully that will clear up any confusion some may (or may not) have had. If not, then I don't know what to say...sorry for investigating a topic started on this MB that incited some curiosity.

Todd · Posted: May 14, 2004 10:23 pm Post subject:

People, people, please stop reading to far into everything. Just because a statment is in German, does not make it related to the Nazi party. Germany is a country with it own language, the Nazis were a political party. That would be like saying everything that comes from American slang is related to being "Republican".

jerrysk8 · Posted: May 15, 2004 9:51 am Post subject:

i feel i should add something here coz i'm not sure if my previous post may have contributed to the ill fated twist to this topic. i merely read previous posts on how uber alles meant above all and how it may be indirectly referenced to nazi's in a dead kennedy's song. then i made a very naive statement that could be open to all sorts of interpretations.

now it seems to me that the people defending erich are the ones reading into this too much and over reacting coz no where in this topic has anybody made a reference to integrity having any connection with nazi's.

K-dub · Pop Shuvit Joined: 28 Oct 2003 Posts: 121 City: nor-cal

jerrysk8, First of all, I am defending Erich here because I believe in what a good friend of mine is doing, and how he is handling everything. To know Erich like I do is to know that this kind of thing is upsetting to him. For a thread that started out as an innocent question about what the literal translation of "Uber Alles" was, this has been blow way out of proportion. We all know that Integrity has no connection with the Nazis, that is'nt the point that we were trying to make. it's the fact that two words on a banner on the top of the page can be made into all kinds of misconceptions that were never intended to be. Erich is a very talented person, and likes to do things his own way. By putting the words "Uber Alles" instead of the literal English translation, it makes the viewer think about what he/she is actually reading. The obvious is for the birds.
Take art for example. Everyone has thier own way of taking in what they see, and you make your own judgement from that. I guess that's what has happened here with two innocent words. The thing that sucks is that the two words were perceived in a negative way...to each his own I guess??

crackerjack · Pop Shuvit Joined: 21 Sep 2003 Posts: 124 City: Salisbury

Damn, I didn't even know that wakeskates had the mental capacity to hate Jews.

To anyone this may concern....THINK!!!

electricsnow · cassette Joined: 14 Sep 2003 Posts: 10756 City: Jefferton

Crackerjack, what is that supposed to mean? Nobody on here made any remarks filled with hatred. (nor did they allude to anything of the sort, they simply asked. And I think it's cool to question things, but you have to make sure that you don't take a question/assumption as fact.) And if you're referring to schmaltz, I think the air has been cleared on that one (meaning, uber alles wasn't abused by the germans).

I'm actually blown away on many levels, because it seems like you're also implying that wakeskaters are stupid or something ("I didn't know wakeskaters had the mental capacity to...").

tribal · Posted: May 16, 2004 10:27 am Post subject:

Electricsnow Crackerjack wrote wakeskates not wakeskaters a little needed sarcasim here.Everyone here is taking this way too seriously.Does wakeskating control your life and turn you into a Nazi?I don't think so.Did Erich intend to make some reference to the Nazi's with uber alles?I don't think so.This reminds me of the whole mothers against rock thing and how bands like Suicidal Tendencies were causing kids to commit suicide Rolling Eyes

Don't take yourselves or this whole wakeskate thing too seriously just go have fun.That's what life is really about Wink

electricsnow · cassette Joined: 14 Sep 2003 Posts: 10756 City: Jefferton

I see, it looked like wakeskaters and I was like, "What?"

foammesh · Posted: May 17, 2004 5:28 pm Post subject:

I think wakeskates have the capacity to hate, my wakeskate definitely hates Americans. It hates on me every time I skate.