Five Reasons...

[gporter]

This is why I am not a believer in Christianity, or any religion for that matter.

I did not write this, a friend of mine did, but I feel almost exactly the same way. With a little less subjective wording. I won't change what was written though, here it is:

[empire88]

Oh hell no.

Not another religion argument....

*I'm not religious at all btw*

[ollieshuvitz]

when it comes to religion and politics, all i ask of my friends (or anyone), is to respect my opinion as i choose to respect theirs, no matter how much i disagree with them.

i would never say that you or your friend is "wrong" in anyway, but i will say that i disagree with your friend's position.

now i could pick that whole article apart and case by case support and reason why i disagree, but i would be wasting our time.

the experiences you and your friend have had in your lives have resulted in what and why you believe what you do, just as how i was raised and my experiences through life thus far have shaped my beliefs.

[ollieshuvitz]

since this is a wakeskate forum, let's have some fun:

[mr robotto]

1. You friend makes fun of using water in baptism or going into the Ganges (idk he said river), but all of these aren't really made because "God commanded it so," during Baptism using water represents purification and also how Jesus went into the river which helps make the connection. Your friends argument was all questions too....
2. You cannot stereotype over 2 billion people as being close minded--thats just not fair. You basically called CS Lewis a sheep, St. Thomas Aquinas a sheep, and myself a sheep-- I wont include myself but I guarantee you the first two people were more open minded than yourself and I could easily say your a close minded atheist. But I wouldn't wanna make fun of you (your friend)
3. I'm Catholic and I hope you realize that scientific evolution is supported, however all of it was done through God's work (according to Catholicism) All I will say is when you see like the most amazing photos of 2008, complete a goal, see an amazing sunrise, enjoy a day on the lake, or feel close to another person or grow as a family, and you think that everything happened and fell into place--then you're selfish in my opinion for not respecting a God (notice I didn't say Christian God) for giving you all that have.
4. Note now you're attacking Christianity and not religion... Anyways i'd say its less of a crutch and more of a step that raises you higher. So you're saying since God is omnipotent (all powerful) and omniscient (all knowing) he inflicts this on us. God is up there after he created us, and now he just wants to destroy us. However God is all good, but then again he basically predestined us to be doomed according to what you said. HE IS THE ONE THAT DID THAT TO YOU. God ****ed you over by creating you--You also seem to have an awful life for you make it sound as if you wish you weren't created. Anyways if you truly believe we are predestined you believe in a God- if not we have free will and we are allowed to make our own choices, affect our health, decide if we want to kill someone else for God allowed us this control.
5. IDK why you are watching crappy religious channels like that but please dont use them as an argument. You just seemed really weak for narrowing out one sect of all the religions in the world and used them as an example.

I tried not to use to much "Jesus says" "the Bible says" for that never works... let me know what you think
read C.S. Lewis' Argument from Reason (or anything else he has), Its an interesting read and taking someone else's point of view is always interesting.

Btw I do understand where are the arguments are coming from, i look for faults all the time in my religion and others and try and argue if certain beliefs are true or not.

[RxSkater]

[-=AlexXx=-]

ollieshuvitz, i love you HAHAHHAHA


gporter, your friend did not make any vaild points...... chris pretty much wrecked him in every asspect.

[JeffKnox]

"Vos vestros servate, meos mihi linquite mores"

-Petrarch

[-LoGiK-]

your just as closed minded as they are, is there a religion that believes in both a higher being and evolution?

[gporter]

How am I close minded if I am just posting what somebody else wrote?


I am actually one of the most open minded people you will ever meet, tell me something and I will try my best to understand, etc...

ollieshuvitz, I didn't quite understand what you wrote, but you seemed to win over most other posters just by using wakeskating as a reference. It was an interesting read though, and I know you wrote for fun so I'm not trying to down talk what you said.

robbotto, I understand you are catholic, and I myself believe in everybody's right to their own belief.

Once again though I can't really defend what was written because I didn't write it. I did say though that he did use a lot of subjective wording and that isn't really the way I'd go about explaining it.

I just thought he had an interesting POV on the whole situation.

[Mr. Top Hat]

my god can beat up your god

[mr robotto]

Mr. Top Hat, no dude, my God's bigger than yours

gporter, actually you can defend it
Quote :I did not write this, a friend of mine did, but I feel almost exactly the same way.

Why don't you let me know how you disagree w/ me?

[JamesBoardr]

has anyone actually looked up the stuff they are preaching in here. You are just as much a sheep for believing in a form of religion as the person believing in evolution. there's a lot of controversy on this stuff and i was bred into a very logic thought process. and learned about the embryos in biology class and the things that linked this to that. But when you get down and dirty into it you realize that A LOT of what darwyn put into is theory wasn't explained and was actually speculation of what he thought would be discovered. 100 years later we have found less and less to prove him right and more the other way. Unfortunately high school textbooks don't show any of the true facts and don't show both sides of the story, mainly they don't try to really find an answer, they want to find the answer that they already imagined in the back of their head.
bottom line. MOST OF SOCIETY BASIS THEIR OPINIONS ON OTHERS' OPINIONS..and if religion were only in place to give people hope to be a better person rather than being sadistically pessimistic towards their life I think its right in its place.

[gporter]

mr robotto, Here is my feeling. I don't want to seem close minded, because I am not. I believe organized religion is one of the worst things to ever happen to this world. That is my personal belief though and I'm not going to try and force it onto you. You asked though, and the least I could do is explain myself.

I see religion as something people turn to because they are scared of what is going to happen to them after this life. I am not scared. I know I am going to one day die and am very much okay with that. Obviously I don't want to die haha

Also, I used to be involved in a church, and used to follow a group of close minded friends, until one day the closest friend of mine was killed in a motorcycle accident.

Now every time I step foot in a church, I think of this part of my life and that is another reason for me not liking the "church" scene.

But hey man, it's one of those "whatever floats your boat" situations, religion. Everybody has a belief, and should, because that is what makes individuality so great.

[mr robotto]

gporter, i wasn't asking for why you aren't religious as much as your arguments to what i said but i understand you...
What made you come away exactly?
You said your friend got in the accident and then "Now every time I step foot in a church, I think of this part of my life"...thats where you lost me on what you meant.

And no offense but you say that people turn to religion because they are scared of life after death but it seems like you became scared after your friends death and ran away from religion. Death is a part of life and it seems as if you blamed religion for his accident like God controlled his motorcycle accident.
I'm not trying to seem rude or anything just discussing

[mr robotto]

JamesBoardr, would it be right for me to say your a sheep for believing in your biology textbook?
Nobody said anything about Darwin, however organisms have developed and grown more complex since the beginning of time.

You base your opinion on what others taught you and what you found and morphed your opinion. Your opinion comes from what OTHERS have taught you, the same holds true for everybody. Its not like we woke up and suddenly believed certain things no one else had thought of.
Don't make such broad statements.... When you said MOST OF SOCIETY BASES THEIR OPINIONS ON OTHERS OPINIONS you should have said ALL OF SOCIETY for we gain our opinions from what others have learned before us--unless you made some huge discovery on evolution and God I seriously doubt you have your own opinion

[gporter]

mr robotto, Yea I see where you are coming from, but the difference is I don't look for religion because of past experiences, not because I myself am scared of death or better yet, scared to look for my own reasons in life.

I am not against religious people, just those that try to force their ways on others, which is what a lot of you do, and its quite honestly a terrible thing to do if you ask me. Especially the weak minded, like kids in schools, inmates of prisons, etc...

People that generally have nothing to lose are the ones that turn to religion, it's like a scape goat.

That is why I don't agree with it, not to mention there is no way you can believe a book that has probably been rewritten thousands of times in its existence. (bible)

If you had no "real" friends after a traumatic incident in your life, and you turned to somebody who was forcing religion onto you, then that person goes and gets wrongfully killed by a drunk driver, then it feels somewhat wrong to keep believing something that was already difficult to believe anyway.

[Mr. Top Hat]

religion provides people with comfort. who doesn't want to die and go to heaven? i know i would, only i don't believe in fairy tales.

[mr robotto]

gporter, no offense but for some reason people who do not believe in religion feel like they've tricked the system. They think they are smart enough to dodge a bullet that over five billion in the world were too dumb to miss. For this reason they are "weak," when actually several of the most powerful people around the world (not just power like the President's power, but intelligence too) believe in a religion or at least recognize that there is a God greater than themselves. For some reason atheists seem to think they've played God and defeated all the weak, but it seems that several truths seemed to be looked past.
I hope you realize over 24,000 different parts (some more than others, some overlapping others) have been found in multiple languages from times within fifty years of Christ. If humans cannot get one story right with that then we are indeed weak. You yourself seem weak to turn to narrow minded people, but hey congrats, you discovered that theres no God because of that drunk drivers wrongdoing.

No offense but your logic seems all wrong. It seems like you entered religion thinking that it saves you from pain, and when the person showing you religion died you realized that pain happens and religion can't stop it. You were joining a religion for the wrong reason and for being weak. I hope you realize you've tried to disprove religion by saying its difficult to believe, you called its followers weak, and you said because the Bible's been reprinted it no longer holds value. You do not seem to have any valid reasons for why religion is no good...

I'm not saying my logic/opinion is all right either, i'm just saying your approach to disproving things do not hold any value in this argument.

[Mr. Top Hat]