bulletline frame Q's

mattttt60 · Backside 180 Joined: 01 Feb 2007 Posts: 648 City: 941

kento911, i see ur point and i like how u actually picked my race bike frame Laughing

bulletlines · Posted: Jan 07, 2008 3:22 pm Post subject:

I looked and took in consideration the price of the Bike frame kento911 posted. IMO opinion the aluminum winch frame is a great deal. How did I form my opinion?First of all the MSRP of the bike is $299.99 (which is the suggested market value), second the frame on our website has probably twice the aluminum (the bike frame only weighs about 4 lbs), third and most important there is at least three times the work involved building the aluminum winch frame on our site. I've already said this once on this thread, but it is virtually impossible to find a metal working company who will bend aluminum tubing (call around in your area), and I'm pretty sure you will not find anyone who will bend for one winch frame unless you are quoted some crazy price. Look at the number of tubing bends involved on the winch, and compare it to the 1 bend on the bike.

Thanks,

Ken Land
Bullet Lines
www.bulletlines.com

tad · 360 flip Joined: 07 May 2006 Posts: 5031

mattttt60, He really doesn't have a valid point. All he did was compare prices of different kinds of aluminum without incorporating major factors in owning and running a business... perfect competition, supply and demand, etc. I just don't see how anyone can hate when no one has stepped up to the plate and sold a solid winch for as cheap as they do.

mattttt60 · Backside 180 Joined: 01 Feb 2007 Posts: 648 City: 941

TAD, ya i didnt really look at it like that

DVSKATE · Backside 180 Joined: 19 Mar 2007 Posts: 654 City: IL

TAD, i know everything hoe. i dont like the overall layout of the frame. I can make a perfectly good winch for 600$ so SUCK IT

tad · 360 flip Joined: 07 May 2006 Posts: 5031

-LoGiK- · Kickflip Joined: 22 Sep 2005 Posts: 2747 City: Orlando

TAD, what i mean by don't be so closed minded , is that everyone on this forum takes andrew way to serious.

and kento that song is from a band named Rebelution and is named Green to Black

tad · 360 flip Joined: 07 May 2006 Posts: 5031

Haha, Trust me I don't take him serious. Only when he rips people off on the forums and punks out like a little beach in person. "Wimp."

JeffKnox · Posted: Jan 07, 2008 9:32 pm Post subject:

kento911 · Kickflip Joined: 29 Mar 2004 Posts: 3657 City: Phoenix

Ken with all due respect I understand you wanting to defend your product but I highly recommend you look into how that frame is made what EXACTLY it entails and pay special attention to the fact there is most certainly more than one bend to say nothing of the CNC parts and the more costly extrusion the lower rear frame is made out of if you were making useless hunks of scrap weight would be more of a factor but that race frame is about 4x as complex as a winch frame and about 3x in materials cost which should negate the advantages they have as a larger company btw what is the MSRP from which you are discounting from

TAD, they were different grades not "types" see grade is a direct indication of COST and QUALITY as far as SUPPLY and DEMAND 7005 is aircraft grade do I really have to draw the dotted line to supply and demand for you I hope not since your much more versed than myself on the subject of economics perhaps you can explain to me how perfect Competition even applies to this discussion

now as far as "Hating" the only person i see "hating" is DVSKATE from what ever issues you guys have I formed an opinion and I backed it up and so far both of your counter arguments are flacid at best I said it was a good product and it was nicely executed but it was over priced IN MY OPINION then I BACKED IT UP so I guess Im "hating" because you don't agree with my opinion

could my opinion be wrong absolutely I don't buy from your suppliers and I don't live in your area (I live in so cal its not hard to find people willing to work aluminum in any way I want)

is my opinion somehow not valid because you disagree with it absolutely not and frankly if you want me to be more accepting of the likelihood of it being wrong present valid counterpoints please

kento911 · Kickflip Joined: 29 Mar 2004 Posts: 3657 City: Phoenix

as an interesting sidebar my winches were 2200 before I discontinued the last incarnation in order to redesign ( which is what I have been doing ) they also had a larger more complex engine a larger cooling system rope that I still have not seen matched especially since it was included in an unbroken 600 ft. length with double the amount of wiring labor and parts in general it could charge off your truck and it also had a stator to run lights off of with and it could pull from any speed 1mph to 50mph

kento911 · Kickflip Joined: 29 Mar 2004 Posts: 3657 City: Phoenix

mattttt60, thank you and thats a bitchin' frame

-LoGiK-, ah my mistake

tad · 360 flip Joined: 07 May 2006 Posts: 5031

kento911, I knew everything about the pirate winch already, I just never really knew what you sold them for. Do you think Grinch, Pulldozers and Hives are over-priced? (Keeping in mind not everyone can or wants to build their own, that's a different story)

I never said you were wrong, your point just didn't make sense to me. It's obvious that the bike frame is more complex. But we were talking about two totally different things. Mass Produced bicycle frames and custom winches. Now if I called up that bike company and told them to make about 10 changes to that frame to fit my needs, would they charge me the same price? Or would they even do it at all?

And by the way, most of the Released frames are $350. (Like the picture on Page 1)

JeffKnox · Posted: Jan 08, 2008 9:42 pm Post subject:

kento911, although your points may be valid, chris and john still put out a quality winch, all aluminum, and the lightest one on the market at the lowest price... im not sure what grounds you have to say it is over priced when no competitor has even come close to their prices... they also sell any winch parts separately, if you are building a winch yourself you can buy any little part you need at one place now instead of having to search around ebay and gocart shops... and also they give out any help when anyone asks... just the other day john wrote up a "how to" governor removal for honda engines... they are by far doing a service for the winching community, not ripping people off...

i mean i understand where you are coming from but i seriously think you could find someone else to rip on when it comes to price... i mean the grinch is 500 pounds and over 2 grand... ridiculous... the pulldozer is 1600 i believe... yours is apparently 2200 although its still under R&D right? ... the hive is 10 grand... and although yours and the hive may offer more, the majority of wakeskaters are young or poor... and dont have the money or a need for boat like pulls or to pull at 50 mph... released winches budget winch sell for close to 1400 and is the lightest and most compact and has a releasing spool for easy pull out...

sorry if you think its over priced but my point is they offer way more than the market for less... so i guess im just saying i dont think their winch warrants criticism ...

kento911 · Kickflip Joined: 29 Mar 2004 Posts: 3657 City: Phoenix

TAD, man your an expert on my winch too how do you find the time Im sorry that you dont understand that comparing a manufactured tubular aluminum frame regardless of the purpose to a manufactured tubular aluminum frame is in essence the definition of what we call a comparison if you cant grasp that I cant help you

P.S. isnt 350 a cheaper price for a frame than 450 what is listed on the site so it would seem there is some discrepency there

JeffKnox, thank you for aknowledging the validity of my points I didnt criticize the man his company it's contributions or his winch I didnt even criticize the frame merely the fact that its a high price for a stand alone frame and the fact that they sell for 350 also seems to reinforce my statement incidentally I wasn't aware there was a competitor for the production of standalone winch frames is there? and what's there price range?

at any rate I think its fairly clear nobody is changing anybody's mind and the person who pissed me off by claiming my point wasn't valid and spouting gibberish afterwards has here-to-fore underwhelmed me with his wits so lets leave it at this

I feel strongly about my opinion I stand behind it, that being said Bulletlines is currently offering a Rewind based complete winch at the best price with better quality than a large percentage of there contemporaries e.g. pulldozer, grinch, etc. so kudos and I deffiantely respect the fact that they help the home builder as the opposite attitude from Rewind towards myself is what prompted me to persue my winches

tad · 360 flip Joined: 07 May 2006 Posts: 5031

kento911, you obviously can't read and don't know how to chill out. Who the fu<k said I was an expert about your winch? Just because I already knew about the lights and power supply means I am claiming expertise? All I said was your point didn't make sense to me, then I proceeded to ask questions. Sorry for wanting to understand your viewpoint a little more clearly. I'm done arguing with you. You are right and all-knowing.

Goodluck on your winch.

NotSoBueno · Backside 180 Joined: 16 Oct 2005 Posts: 1806 City: SoCal

This is where we're heading if we can't all get along:

tad · 360 flip Joined: 07 May 2006 Posts: 5031

NotSoBueno, We all know nobody gets along this time o' year. On that note, I'm going to take a set right now, LATES!

80 Degrees FTW!

NotSoBueno · Backside 180 Joined: 16 Oct 2005 Posts: 1806 City: SoCal

TAD, I get along, but I really don't like the fact that you're riding and I'm not. Smash

Bad Luck · Posted: Jan 09, 2008 11:44 am Post subject: